Brand New - Science Fiction (August 17, 2017) [ARCHIVED] Album • Page 1718

Excuse me but I don't see how that's what he said, but if that's what he said yes, it's incorrect. What I think he meant though is that there are other ways that the power dynamic for a sexual predator can establish itself, not just frontman in a popular band.

 

there is a pattern but as i said, i think it's because he saw them as easier targets that would be more easily manipulated by his tactics. maybe i'm wrong, but this is just my theory as opposed to full on ian watkins shit

 

what in god's name are you even arguing about at this point?

 

i mean yeah we know that

 

they said it

 

when the victim says it happened because she idolized him and you say power structures in the industry isnt the issue, you are 100% incorrect and need to actually listen to what the victim is saying.

 

There's an actual name for that. Excusing Lacey by saying that you "think" that he saw them as easy targets is literally give him an excuse. Lacey was/is(?) a sexual predator of underage girls. He groomed and abused minors. That's pedophilia. I'm not theorizing anything about this. That's literally the facts at hand.

 

power is not an industry problem it's a human problem.

that's why all these shitty CEOs, actors and musicians are going down while the good ones get to stay.

again, what in the fuck are we still discussing at this point?

 

'Cool guy at a party' comes directly from more than one of my personal friends who have been in the same situation, and idolized a predator because they were 'small town famous.' They did the same things these girls did for Jesse, for the same reason - status is status is status. I think.

And like I just said - part of my perspective comes from my career. As a pastor in a church, I've known and fought against the abuses of other pastors (sexual and otherwise). I don't think it's particularly helpful to say, 'what's the cause of this pastor/priest being a pedophile?' The answer is, 9 times out of 10, 'dude is a piece of shit who took advantage of his position.' I don't think the answer is, 'he's a pastor' anymore than the answer is 'Jesse is the singer of a band.'

That could be totally wrong, I guess. But to me, the blame here goes 100% to Jesse, and not anyone else. Those who covered it up/enabled it are culpable of their own shitty behavior. But at the end of the day, I personally think Jesse the lead singer of a band or Jesse the minister or Jesse the whatever is all the same thing: Jesse the predator. Blaming the actual platform misses the point (I think) that Jesse's everywhere use their platforms to be predators.

And to circle back, that's what makes this different than other situations (which was the original conversation, if i remember correctly).

 

Basically, the whataboutism won and I'm ashamed for falling for it. Not my fault or Ashland's, cwhit's or Sophos' fault but we should know better. C'mon fam.

 

no one's blaming anyone but jesse, for taking advantage of his platform. jesus. this is fucking stupid as shit

 

Everyone knows this already. We know. You keep bringing it up for some bizarre reason. We all know that the power structures in place for people of influence can hurt their fans, in many cases, yes, young fans. What you're saying brings fuck all to this discussion.

 

the real whataboutism is coming from people saying "what about predators who arent in bands?" this predator was in a band. it allowed him to prey on underage girls. thats an issue.

 

I literally had the same exact sentence typed out but for some reason decided not to post it because my brain entered whataboutery mode.
but yes. THIS.

 

I think what people were attempting to discuss is, what's the overall point in boycotting Brand New when, if this is what you stand for, you should be boycotting half the people on the planet

 

you know what? you should. there's plenty of artists out there who are perfectly nice people, support them instead. every time.

 

let's do it

 

It’s not pedophilia.. but he is a sexual predator and abuser.

 

This is a fucking stupid post. People can boycott whatever they want. They aren't going to pre emptively boycott things, if someone wants to boycott someone or something because they're a predator, let them. You saying "WELL THEN WHY DON'T YOU BOYCOTT X" without actual proof just muddies discussion and comes across in bad taste.

 

and maybe this whole debacle that has been unfolding over the past few weeks will finally get it through people's thick head why diversity and representation is important.

 

teebs, you know, no hard feelings between us two, but seriously who cares where you draw the pedo-line. She was 14 for god's sake.

calling it something else doesn't make it less fucked up.

 

Actually, no. I disagree with this. Whataboutism is talking about Beatles and bullshit like that like THEY ALL DID IT like that was ever alleged about them. Like people came forward saying that Paul, John, Elvis, Mick, Keith, Axl or whoever wrote letters to their underage fans, asked to keep a secret, asked for nudes, sexually abused them, kept them at a string and did that systematically. That's trivializing what Lacey did. That's like saying that ALL BANDS in this scene or back in the 60s did that kind of bullshit. When we all know better than that. At least, you know, those who actually know better.

Saying that it can happen with different variations of power dynamic at play is bringing awareness to the issue, which is power dynamics and happens not just with band members, pretty much what Lacey did was 101 sexual predator weirdo bullshit. Not really a "band" thing, not that other musicians aren't capable of that, like Watkins and several others. Saying that it happens with underage girls and boys isn't really whataboutism and I don't even know how could you even think that, but bringing awareness. I'm sure you are heated and not thinking straight now. There's a clear misunderstanding going on here.

 

no, deflecting away from the role being in a band plays in giving predators access and protection is not bringing awareness to the issue

 

the point I'm reading is not "he did what he did simply because he was in a band" but "he was enabled in doing what he did by the power given to him by being in a band"