The Batman (Matt Reeves, March 4, 2022) Movie • Page 18

I am going to be honest, if he turns out to be Snyder, that would make so much more sense than the alternative.

 

Snyder would be the one going "but the costumes!" ... he'd probably say it in slow motion though.

 

Hmmmmm. I guess not being a slave to source material means I'm not a fan and don't get it lol. The comics are the comics and movies are movies, I love them all mostly as long as its good. I can see why people super fan boys get a bad rap for being too intense.

 

I wish I could use the Hollywood money.

And is it false to say that the costumes are well done?

 

Watch that ending again. Superman doesn't sacrifice himself for humanity. He specifically says that Lois is his world. He does it for her. Not humanity. Humanity being saved is just a convenient benefit.

 

But they're not good because they don't understand what makes the good comics good. That's the entire point. They're bad movies because they don't understand what makes the characters good characters. Making changes is fine if the outcome is good. The outcome was not good because they wrote shit characters first and foremost.

 

"This is my world. You are my world." I remember the ending. I didn't interpret that as "Doing this for you and only you."

 

Wait. Have you read Watchmen? It doesn't really sound like you have.

Ok. Let's lay this out. Obviously leaving out a bunch, but:

Book: Ozy's plan involved kidnapping scientists and artists, etc to create a giant existential threat to the globe in the hopes of uniting the people of earth in peace against a threat. He keeps this plan from Manhattan by giving his ex-g/f's cancer so he further detaches from humanity and checks out. The attacks happen, people see this giant external threat, it's meant to be scary and different and drive them to a panic. The people of the earth realize they are not alone in the universe and that their only commonolity is as a species fighting an invading species.

Movie: Ozy's plan to unite the planet is to use an American citizen, turned into a psuedo god, who has been used as a nuclear weapon on the battlefield against multiple countries, to cause mass destruction. And somehow this won't result in the people of the world uniting against the United States and its allies for letting their weapon lose control? Further descending the world into tribalist wars.

Watchmen is one of the most meticulously plotted comics ever. Literally, each panel has significances. Changing anything meant disturbing the narrative. So you have to compensate. Snyder just changed without any regard to the rest of the narrative because he thought something wouldn't look cool.

 

Last paragraph describes the entire issue with Snyder. I'm not against changes you just have to be able to compensate by also providing a good back story or motivation of reasoning. If you leave that out or it sucks, then that's the whole shebang.

 

Here is the thing, the costumes fall into the same damn trap.

Again, this book is meticulous. The whole premise was to deconstruct the Silver Age heroes. Specifically, the Charlton characters (The Question = Rorscharch, Blue Beetle = Nite Owl, Captain Atom = Doc Manhattan, etc.) The costumes of the book were specific in their coloring, fabric choice, etc. They were supposed to look like 1960s comic book costumes. Meaning, they were colorful and silly. Take a character like Nite Owl. He was based on Ted Kord, and meant to be silly looking. He was a nerd. That was kind of the point.

Here, again, Snyder made changes for seemingly no reason. He kept the setting, the 60s and 80s, but for some reason he applied a 90s superhero movie aesthetic to the costumes. And he mistakenly believed that Nite Owl was based on Batman and not Blue Beetle. So his costume is more menacing than goofy.

It is just baffling that this man professes to be a fan of the story. So much of what he did indicates that just isn't true.

 

I see that another big ol' Snyder-bashing session took place in here. Always a good time.

As for TDKR, as much as I love aspects of it, I'm pretty squarely in the camp that doesn't like it as a cohesive whole. I'm not into all the various little nitpicks, but the overall narrative flow just doesn't work for me. Simply having Bruce still functioning as Batman at the beginning alone would've helped a lot for me.

 

Not enough gets made of Zack Snyder's politics and how they inform his work. His dream project is the Fountainhead, he made an absurdly racist adaptation of a work by the hyper right wing Frank Miller, and his Superman is an objectivist superhero. Nevermind his inability to craft a functional and moving narrative without an external story to adapt.

Super, super engaging visual and action filmmaker though.

 

Sorry for the late responses, I browse at work typically.

I took that those lines more as she is what grounds him and connects him to humanity, showing him how good people can be and worth fighting for.

Of course I have read it lol. Ozy’s plan to outsmart Dr. Manhattan played out the same still in both versions, just the ending was changed. I never thought about it that way in that he fought for America so other countries might think America is to blame. That is a good point. I think they sold it well though by making it look like Dr blew up an American city, and already previously leaving earth and detaching himself from humanity live on TV. Even if he was with America in the past, it’s not a crazy stretch to think he just wants to kill the world now and that would band everyone together.

Oh I thought you all were talking about the costumes for all Snyder movies, including the DCEU which I completely love. Yeah the Watchmen were the weakest but never struck me as anything that I hated.

It's not baffling that he's a fan. Movies take years of someone's life. Just become some changes were made that you personally don't like doesn't discredit all his dedication to the project. That is so weird to say.

That seems a lot to project onto someone. I don’t know much about Miller’s politics, just that his comics are classic and changed the industry. Can’t Zack just be a huge comic fan (he is) and want to adapt the stories he and everyone loves so much to screen without thinking into how it plays into politics? I could be completely wrong and it could all be intentional but the same could be said for the other way.

 

Bingo. Movie would have been able to start right up and jump into the story instead of slowly getting started.

 

That's pretty much how I viewed it. You can make arguments that the movies don't communicate his love of humanity well enough, but I don't understand this notion that it's not there at all. It came across to me.

 

Sure the film says it's about those things, but it doesn't dramatize them. So it doesn't function well, and that's why it doesn't land with a lot of audiences. Even the tone of Superman helping humanity presents him as a God-like figure bestowing benevolence on an awe-struck people, like that BvS scene where he helps people in a fire and they all reach out and touch him. There's no clear happiness or joy in that he helped these people, it's all presented as a conflict. To make an effective character psyche and develop a resonant thematic arc with that character, you have to dramatize what you say your movie is about. Man of Steel, where he seems tortured and pained about whether or not he should help people, and BvS don't do that well for Superman at all.

 

The politics are in his work, and understanding an artist's politics can go a long way in understanding the thematic throughlines of their work. I can look at each work individually and in a vacuum and enjoy and criticize them, but when looking at Snyder's filmography as a whole, those ugly politics are there and inform another layer of viewing. I mean, I like Dawn of the Dead, I think 300 is really well made as entertainment, though it's racism and the conflicted politics of the source material are still there, and I think Watchmen and Man of Steel have a lot of strengths, though I think they have deep flaws and don't hold up as whole, coherent, quality films. Then understanding Snyder's fixation on objectivism and Ayn Rand and affinity for Frank Miller's work (yes, Frank Miller has written undeniable classics and incredible stories, he is also a deeply problematic writer with a worldview that taints much of his work), then it can inform an argument about Zack Snyder films and their strengths and weaknesses. Same with understanding Christopher Nolan and Richard Linklater's preoccupations with exploring the concept of time throughout their works, or Martin Scorsese's history and perspectives on religion inform so much of what he does, and Charlie Kaufman's struggles with and interests in the meaning of art and legacy and ego and how they all combine, etc.

 

I guess I just like the internal conflict angle. That said, brooding Superman in JL probably won't work for me since it seems like he's evolved passed that.

 

I like the conflict angle too in MOS a lot. He saved a few people but hey, it was Superman year one where he was Superman for literally a day. Besides the Jonathan vs Tornado scene, I don't get any complaints really.

Now with BvS....yeah they put all his saving people into one montage and would have been better suited to show it throughout the movie. And then Snyder seemed more for showing awesome scenery shots that jump out then him actually look caring, like all the people reaching out for him or the lady in the flood on the roof reaching out and Superman just hovering there. Sure, it looks great like a comic panel come to life but also doesn't make it look like he cares all too much.

 

^ Also, this is why I brought up what Whedon's ex wife recently said about him when talking about my mixed feelings on him directing Batgirl. I had issues with the man behind Dollhouse tackling a character with The Killing Joke in her comic book history already, but hearing more about his marriage adds another layer to that.

 

Ben Affleck’s Batman script was inspired by David Fincher’s mystery thriller ‘The Game’

 

Hmm. So, like a conspiracy thriller where Batman goes on an investigative mission that consumes him and causes his world to come crashing down around him? The might have been cool

 

That sounds dope

 

A detective mystery sounds more interesting than any recent Batman film I've seen.

 

A Batman anime that takes place in medieval era Japan and Batman is a fucking ninja? Sign me up.

http://m.ign.com/articles/2017/10/06/batman-ninja-first-poster-revealed-for-upcoming-anime-movie