General Politics Discussion (III) [ARCHIVED] • Page 1279

North Korean prison camps exposed by State Dept

 

State Dept builds up propaganda case to justify aggression

 

Ignorant question: If ANTIFA isn't wanting to be looked at as a violent counter to the Neo Nazi's, why the appearance with with the all black clothing, bandannas, masks etc...to me that looks like a group wanting to look threatening, which can be harmful with a lot of the media feeding the rhetoric that the Left is just as bad if not moreso than the Right (who's dressed in polo's and khakis)?

 

Pee tape then Budd Dwyer tape

 

I believe they wear those things so they can't be easily identified and arrested after punching a nazi


Edit: referring to chris' post

 

Makes sense, and I'm all for it...

 

my gf bought me the antifa handbook

 

"all I wanna do is maga" sounds like a bad chorus to a bad edm song

 

People don't want to be arrested or fired, or identified and tracked by fascist networks who attack people or police departments who attack people. And both of those groups do actively identify and track activists and protesters a lot. Look up keywiki, and then think about how much better at it local and federal police must be.

I don't think antifa (not all capitals, its not an acronym, its a shortened form of anti-fascist or anti-fascist action, nothing else) usually has a problem with being violent counters to nazis, but I'm assuming you mean seen as an equally bad counter-extreme or whatever. Which is a concern for sure, but also something any sufficiently left wing group is going to face. And with all of the PR missteps and smear campaigns antifa demonstrators (its also not a group, there is no leadership, no central organization, no meetings except maybe of small cadres, etc) have faced in the last year or so, they were still getting cheered at more democratic-party oriented protests after Cville. It's important to remember that right wingers, including the ones running corporate networks and papers, are never ever going to side with anti fascist demonstrators, so you know, dont even worry about them.

 

That's not reality though ... and most voters don't condone or want violence. The videos of people being beat while laying on the ground rarely turn someone to your side. The polls move the opposite direction every time.

 

It makes me think about Tegan and Sara

 

Y'all realize that violence is only a part of what antifa does, right? Participating in this discourse highlights one facet of their tactics, thereby contributing to their vilification.

 

Statue of Christopher Columbus found beheaded in New York

sick

 

I enjoy the removal of these dumb white supremacist monuments with no expense to the tax payer.

 

Yes. But that violence, when weaponized by the media or politicians, is the easiest to hold up to counter all the rest they do. When a viral video of a beat down and stories of "mistaken identity" "coma" and more spread around ... that plays right into Trump's hand of equivalence. That video lost the PR war when it had no story about *why* and it was filled in by the right/whoever. A black camera man jumping on the man to shield him became the hero in that video. That's why every one will denounce the violence when something like that hits the internet.

 

What are the antifa doing after Harvey? (#GonzoNotes)

 

They used the same tactics with BLM. They will always use those tactics. What provides them ammo is when folks cede ground and accept the premises of their arguments, rather than actually sticking by people who actively protect marginalized communities. You had members of clergy praising them because they protected them and their church from the violence of the right. They did this physically. One hears nothing of that. So, if we are actually going to analyze why they're getting a bad reputation, then we need to speak about the complicity of those on the left who assist with making an equivalence between these two forces. Lastly, I would argue that all of this discourse around violence is mistaken, because the liberals wringing their hands about antifa and the conservatives who see them as a threat never actually contend with the systemic violence to which many are subjected on a day to day basis. This is violence that is redundant, banal and just a fixture in terms of how this country functions. This is a context that is never questioned, but the response to that which it produces, i.e., Nazis, is.

 

Has this been shared? Dude from Rick and Morty re: Fascism.

 

I know, my point is that it works and there should be some kind of counter messaging in place for when things like that go viral to be able to explain why the violence occurred, or what it is. The decentralized strategy is great for many things; however, when something like this happens ... it always loses out when there's no one to get the facts out. So the PR battle gets lost. When a video of a black camera man jumping on a person getting hit with sticks on the ground by multiple people goes viral, how does anyone go on camera and say that was protecting marginalized communities?

Again, I agree with you ... I'm talking about how to counter these kinds of messages and move us to a place where these discussions actually do reach voters or the regular person so they understand. If all they see is thirty seconds of one group of people hitting someone with sticks in white polos, and then another group of people in black masks hitting someone with sticks ... it's easy to see why they equivalence gets built. People don't have the time to search out any thing else and no one is giving them the why. Instead they just see "violence on both sides" -- the media isn't going to solve that, they want the violence for ratings, but devoid of a spokesman or PR explaining anything that goes on, you see what the outcome is. I have no idea what the answer is, I just know the current strategy is losing the media game big time. And if a politician were to stand up and say "well, the violence here is in response to ...." or praise or justify it, the largest voting block in the country would turn against them.

Because of that it's why you see every single politician, from Bernie on down, denouncing violence. Because if they don't, and then someone shows up at a baseball game and shoots someone, their career would be over and the equivalence would be forever solidified in most people's head: Trump's right, there's violence on both sides. He's painted the left into this corner, and they're handing him headlines that help him. I'm trying to point out why he's done this, and why it's working, hoping that people think about this sort of stuff. I'm not the one that needs convincing ... the person that worked all day, gets off work, and sees a viral video that says "antifa beats someone into a coma they mistook as a nazi" on their Facebook on the ride home is the person that needs to be reached. And I think there's a massive communication and response failure happening that is preventing that.

 

Oops that wasn't in response to that convo I forgot was happening