General Politics Discussion (III) [ARCHIVED] • Page 600

"If voting Democrat is harm reduction for black voters, perhaps withholding the vote from Democrats is like forcing them to go to rehab. Black voters might need to take a break from Democrats, to force them to take us seriously, to stop taking our votes from granted and to push them toward policies which don’t hurt us."


Democrats take us black voters for granted. What if we abandoned them? | Steven Thrasher

Too true.

 

Dumb question. How close to likely is it that we get a viable third party with proper support and funding and a following within the next 10 years? The fallout from this administration has to be a significant data point.

 

I wonder how many people would vote for a Black Nationalist Party with a softer name/message. Like SNP, where they're lefty but not radically so but the nationalism is the main issue and the main reason people vote for them.

 

I think the issue there is that the lack of concentration and just general low population relative to the rest of America. The SNP is popular in Scotland but hated by a lot of people South of the border. A black nationalist party might work to display protest but could work in precisely the opposite way by effectively barricading oneself from the rest of the population. Not that I don't like the idea in theory but it has it's flaws.

 

Oh I don't think ant third party would really be able to do much in the US under any circumstances but it's an interesting thought experiment

 

Between the Black Body and Me

 

@Dominick curious on your thoughts on that one, he was on the premium chapo today and made a good argument but i haven't read the Coates book since it came so idk. He has critiques of afro-pessimism and adjacent things that seem rooted in the idea that pessimism means rejecting political action which isn't how I understand it. I do wonder if it does fall into a trap of race as ontological category and thus an anti-materialist view, but idk. Its not like Coates is someone I would expect to have a marxist materialist analysis anyway, but still.

 

Question: What if we abandoned them?
Answer: Republicans and people like Donald Trump will continue to win

Seems to be pretty clear.

 

Democrats’ Secret Weapon: Romney Voters

presented without commentary because what's the point anymore

 

So, your response to the inadequacies of the democratic party and the call for them to actually address the problems within their party is: "we offer you nothing except the promise that the gratuitous violence, deprivation and wholesale displacement of your communities will return to Obama levels." Sounds about white.

 

My response to a pretty easy to answer question is the easy answer--the country will go more right wing. Republicans will win.

But I know Jason will laugh when he sees posts like this and then remembers all the times you and others have said "we never said they were just as bad!"

How about this-political engagement in all sorts of ways, including voting, is by far the best way to get a party to bend itself to your will. See: Tea Party.

 

Much like the SNP, I could see it being something of a regional phenomena. It might be something similar to Haywood's Black Belt thesis. But, I could see both liberals and conservatives attacking them as "racist separatists". The Baltimore DSA is currently working with The Ujima People's Progress Party, a black nationalist/worker-led party that is trying to build power in Maryland. They're pretty good on a lot of questions. I've worked with them before when we formed Liberate Baltimore in opposition to Occupy Baltimore. That sort of solidarity and power-building, I think, is worth fighting for.

 

Former FBI Director James Comey to testify June 8 - CNNPolitics.com

 

My argument isn't that they are the same. It is the same argument I've been making for years: black oppression is systemic and, therefore, a bipartisan endeavor. That is to say, the mechanisms by which the entire infrastructure of this country and economic system operates, from its political groups to the factory floor, is mediated by anti-blackness. As such, when you talk to be as though Democrats represent a challenge this, it ceases to make sense, because they're not talking about structurally changing any of those things. They, like you, are offering black people nothing, except a reversion to a specific strategy of anti-blackness. It is either that or a Reagan-esque appeal to bootstrap theory, only, in this case, it is the reward of changing the democrats, while honest assessments of what black people should do in terms of exercising political power or engaging in self-determination is dismissed. As I said, sounds about white.

 

I'm sure it's been asked before, but what are you politics podcasts you'd all recommend? I just subscribed to Intercepted which I'm excited to listen to, but other than that, I generally only listen to non-political podcasts and I'm hoping to change that.

 

Keith Ellison has one called "We the Podcast"

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...1?mt=2&usg=AFQjCNExrHMJ83_syoUXavNwM6PVsO3aXg

I've only listened to a few though

 

lol.

 

And it sounds to me like more "communism or not good enough" from you, which I disagree with. You also keep saying "I'm not saying that they are same" and then following that up with why both parties result in roughly the same outcome.

I disagree with the "offering nothing" thing, but I also think that the way to get them to "offer something" is definitely NOT not voting for them. Parties cater to the people that vote for them, not to the people that don't.

 

And black voters vote for democrats. If that were to change though, and black voters were to move significantly towards alternative parties, that would require democrats to really examine and change, no? Yes, republicans would win more elections if black voters decided not to turn out for democrats, but that's why maintaining and energizing the black vote is vital and can't just be taken for granted. If democratic priorities are inadequately satisfying the desires of black voters, that's a problem with the party, not the voters. Yes, republicans are tangibly far worse. But there has to be a better rallying cry than that.

 

This is the first mention of communism in this entire exchange. I've been referring to wanting a party that has structural change on offer as it relates to the problem facing working-class black folks in this country. As for your last sentence, I honestly have no response, other than to say you clearly do not know what "systemic racism" means, if you truly believe that it is the product of one party or that one party is complicit in perpetuating it.

 

Black voters vote for Democrats, but they still represent a small sliver of what actually is a big tent party, in both supporters and in ideology. I'd venture a guess there's a moderate non-black voter that votes Democrat for every black voter that votes Democrat, let alone if you exclude moderate black Democrats. The Dems need black voters to win, but they also need a LOT of other voters who will have differening ideologies.

In other words, completely abandoning the party isn't going to get you anything but a more right wing country. Might it require Democrats to really examine and change? Yeah, it might. But the chances are just as grreat, if not greater, that they change to the right, as it'd be the right wing ideas that'd be winning elections.

There's a pretty large area between taking black voters for granted, and running as black nationalists. I'd say the Democratic party's very different rhetoric on the justice system and policing and etc. is a good example of that. Not to mention how theyv'e shifted left on many, many, many issues that affect minorities and black people specifically since the 90's.

 

One party has many members and many politicians actively trying to address systemic racist.

The other party denies it exists.